Greek vs. Hindu Religion: Satyr 'Pan' is Europe's Version of Krishna in Childhood

“The Homeric Hymn also states that Pan is a god beloved of both the shepherd and his flock and, adding even further to the mysterious and enigmatic nature of this divinity, that he is a fierce and terrifying hunter as well as a gifted musician and nimble dancer.” [On the Death and Rebirth of the Great God Pan, by Richard Stromer]

“Pan is represented in Egypt by the painters and the sculptors, just as he is in Greece, with the face and legs of a goat. They do NOT, however, believe this to be his shape, or consider him in any respect unlike the other gods; but they represent him thus for a reason which I prefer not to relate.” [Histories of Herodotus (440 BC), Book II, Chapter 46]

Lord Krishna's childhood pranks and pastimes are distorted in the Greek religion with Pan, "god of the wild, shepherds and flocks, hunting and rustic music, and companion of the nymphs" (Wikipedia). Krishna is the companion of milkmaids (Gopis) or 'nymphs', whom he delights by playing his bamboo flute, or 'rustic music'. Pan's original home is Arcadia, acclaimed as an "unspoiled, harmonious wilderness" in European Renaissance art. Vrindaban (forest or grove of Vrinda or Tulsi, i.e. Holy Basil) was ancient India's Arcadia. In Braj-bhoomi, a region in northern India which encompasses Mathura and Vrindaban, Krishna is famous for dancing with the Gopis (Rasa-Lila), tending cows, and playing the flute in dense forests surrounded by simple creatures such as peacocks and monkeys. All these personal characteristics of this adorable Hindu God were diluted to help form the features of some of the most obscure and often grotesque beings called satyrs, who were sometimes fully human or partly human with horse or goat-like features (e.g. tails), mainly from the waist downwards. Most examples I am going to display are completely human, because in my opinion they represent the earliest forms of Krishna worship in ancient Greece and Rome.

Each one of these statues is titled, "Young Satyr Playing the Flute", without explaining who this satyr was, including his name, lineage, and role among other gods. Both are Roman copies produced in the 1st-2nd century A.D. of Hellenistic sculptures inspired by artists such as Praxiteles (4th century BC). The left statue was found in Domitian's Villa (A.D. 81-96), and is seen here at the Vatican Museum. The other marble statue on the right is from the Louvre, which you can also view at the Harvard University Library website. The Louvre's example is better preserved, but both demonstrate the Greeks' familiarity with Lord Krishna, including his childhood. His vintage cross-legged, leaning stance next to a tree trunk while delicately sounding beautiful melodies from his flute is synonymous with Krishna's Murali-dhara (flute holder) form in Vedic tradition. These two sculptures may not have even been "satyrs" originally, but later this terminology got ignorantly planted onto them as generic labels.

The satyrs in Greek mythology were salacious companions of Dionysus, another Greek god whose parallels to certain facets of Lord Shiva will be discussed in another post. Much like Krishna's childhood and adulthood, Shiva's sexual and destructive natures were separated to create multiple deities (Dionysus and Poseidon) in ancient Europe's endless desire to have as many pagan gods and goddesses as possible in its pantheon. The warrior and prince Krishna, as opposed to the child Krishna, has frequently been cited by contemporary Greek and Roman scholars before the common era as Heracles, including Megasthenes and Quintus Curtius. Also, "To the Etruscans, Hercle (Heracles) was always considered divine, not a hero who became divine only after his death. This popular figure, worshiped in numerous Etruscan sanctuaries, functioned as an oracular and healing god, qualities less important for the Greek Herakles" (Metropolitan Museum of Art, NYC, Etruscan Religion and Pantheon exhibit). Therefore, Krishna may have exercised an even more powerful impact on Etruscans than Greeks or Romans. American indologist Edwin Francis Bryant equates Hari-Krishna with Greece's adult hero Herakles, but not many to my knowledge have correlated the flute playing satyr (which devolved into Pan) with Krishna in his youth.

Chief among these curious entertainers, "Pan spends his time among the mountain nymphs of Arcadia, playing the panpipe," because "true to his satyr nature, Pan was lascivious" (pg. 385, Encyclopedia of Greek & Roman Mythology by Luke Roman, 2010). Yet despite his lusty desires, Pan has been described as the 'preeminent pastoral deity' by Yves Bonnefoy, who further adds that this god was already present in Greek religious life by the sixth century B.C. and probably earlier. Although Lord Krishna's pranks and Rasa-Lila dance with the Gopis were misinterpreted as sexual escapades and orgies, still Pan retained the status of a universal pastoral deity like Krishna. The graphics below fittingly illustrate the contrast between Pan holding hands with naked women and Krishna (blue color) expanding himself into multiple, identical males to please each of the milkmaids wearing saris (traditional Indian dress), especially his favorite Gopi and consort Radha in the center of the dance circle.

  "Pan with Wood Nymphs Statue"

Lord Krishna dances with Gopis in Rasa-Lila

Bagore ki Haveli, Udaipur, Rajasthan, India

The Homeric Hymn to Pan is more or less an exact description of Rasa-Lila: "Only at evening... he sounds his note, playing sweet and low on his pipes of reed... At that hour the clear-voiced nymphs are with him and move with nimble feet, singing by some spring of dark water." The dark water probably refers to the Yamuna river, which is united with Krishna, who is also known as Shyama-sundara (beautiful dark person), in Vaishnava spiritual beliefs.

Speaking of Radha, she is cherished by the residents of Vrindaban because she is the eternal companion and wife of Lord Krishna. To paraphrase author Sharon Rose Yang, the striking closeness between Pan and the Roman Pales is due to the fact that they complement each other like Chinese yin and yang, or male and female, much as Radha and Krishna are glorified as one divine couple. This divinity Pales is sometimes defined as male and other times as female, exemplifying the confusion resulting from this dual role. Even though Pan is usually equated with Roman Faunus, this correspondence is deceiving because it ignores the similarities between Pan and Pales, which would also account for why the Roman festival Parilia was celebrated with such exuberance on April 21. The ancient Romans probably mixed up or matched Rama with Krishna on the same date. They also held another festival on July 7 for 'the two Pales' (Palibus-duobus), possibly to mark the dedication of a new temple to Pales by Marcus Atilius Regulus. Therefore, "Pales can be either singular or plural in Latin, and refers at least once to a pair of deities," according to Wikipedia. Yang's book clearly describes the basic relationship between Krishna (masculine Pan) and Radha (feminine Pales) in Hindu religious belief:

A revered shepherd goddess who presided over pastoral life, Sharon Yang explains, "Pales is purely an object of worship not a participant in the action... Pan is the main god who brings bounty and content, while Pales is only his assistant... Pan's exploits in love are recounted by the shepherds, while Pales, whose feast seems to link her to fertility, is, ironically, never mentioned in terms of sexuality and requires the purification of those who celebrate her." (Goddesses, Mages, and Wise Women, 2011, pg. 87)

Top: Lord Krishna playing his flute among gathered cows attracted to him

Bottom: Terracotta sculpture of Pan ("Rites of Spring") by Milton Horn

Milton Horn, a Russian immigrant who became a naturalized citizen in America, gives his own interpretation above of Pan sitting with normal human legs and feet next to a ram, or male sheep. This is very close to the familiar imagery of Krishna playing music to enchant his favorite pets, cows. Domesticated animals are essential for the sustenance of any rural society, and while Greece and Rome depended on sheep, India relied on cows. As Pan's activities and functions revolve around protecting shepherds and their livestock, Krishna is the protector of cowherd boys (Gopas) and girls (Gopis). He is known as Gopala ("one who tends cows") because he is one of the cowherd boys himself and also the most prominent one. 

In the ancient Greek language, 'paein' means 'to pasture', but this is not the only meaning associated with Pan, and it may not be its original etymology. In A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the English Language, Ernest Klein speculates that Pan could be cognate to Sanskrit Pushan, a Vedic solar deity who is a "guardian and multiplier of cattle and other human possessions." Pushan literally means nourishment or growth. This agreement between Pan-Pushan would be analogous to the Poseidon-Poshayitnu relation previously suggested by me when comparing Shiva to Poseidon. Whether these words are related or not, Klein's guess demonstrates that scholars are often left with no other avenue than recourse to Sanskrit, the mother of European languages, which American historian William Durant has recognized.

The Oxford Dictionary of Classical Myth & Religion (2003) postulates another popular theory about Pan:
"The ancients quite early associated Pan with the word pan, 'all'. From this word-play leads to the association which made Pan in the Roman period into a universal god, the All. It is in this context that we should see the well-known story in Plutarch, which has sometimes been linked with the rise of Christianity, of a mysterious voice announcing the death of 'great Pan'." (pg. 402)

Like Rama's devotees, Krishna's followers also worship him as the supreme God, and so it is not surprising that Pan became known as a universal god during the Roman period of dominance. When Christianity emerged shortly after that age, Pan was declared dead, and Plutarch cried, "the air immediately became filled with a terrible lamentation" (On the Death and Rebirth of the Great God Pan, by Richard Stromer). This statement reminds one of the Bhagavata Purana's declaration that Kali Yuga (iron age of quarrel) began when Krishna departed from this world after the hunter Jara struck his foot with an arrow (Canto 12.2.29). Pan and Herakles, whom we have mapped to young Krishna and mature Krishna respectively, are both Greek divine heroes whose unexpected death is suddenly announced too. Herakles returns to Olympus after dying in apotheosis and Krishna rises to his divine abode after the completion of his leela (pastimes). Furthermore, the crucifixion of Jesus and his life story may be linked to Krishna's biography, but this is a whole new topic that deserves treatment for another day. 

Heliodorus, a Greek votary of Krishna, hails Vasudeva (another name for Lord Krishna) as "the God of Gods" on his Garuda pillar constructed in 113 B.C. Still present in Vidisha, Madhya Pradesh (central India), this stone column also contains the inscription: "Three immortal precepts (footsteps), when practiced lead to heaven: self-restraint, charity, consciousness." These are certainly not the qualities you would attribute to a follower of a sex-crazed maniac like Pan, because even the so-called satyr playing the flute has no obvious sexual connotations attached to it except trivial nudity. Agathocles, an Indo-Greek king of ancient Bactria (present-day northern Afghanistan), coined silver drachmas around 185 B.C. displaying Balarama and Krishna, the two heroic brothers of the Yadava clan. Therefore, the knowledge of Krishna and scriptures like Bhagavad Gita (where he reveals himself as the Supreme Lord) already permeated the consciousness of Greeks centuries before Christ. 

For the incredulous skeptics, I ask them: Were the ancients of Europe randomly erecting statues of Krishna, such as the ones below, in Italy and Greece just for amusement? While most of them are kept hidden in museums spread across Europe, including the "Resting Satyr" in Saint Petersburg, Russia and another "Satyr playing a flute" in Paris, France, there are also some that stand outside in public areas where Greek influence is strong. Campania, colonized by ancient Greeks, and Copenhagen, of all cities, are two examples I have come across:

Satyr Playing Flute at Ørstedsparken in Copenhagen, Denmark

Greek statue of Lord Krishna at public square in Naples, Campania, Italy

Lord Krishna playing his divine flute among peacocks under a tree 
Courtesy of krsna-art.com

Richard Stromer's article, "On the Death and Rebirth of the Great God Pan", is full of interesting tidbits of information collected from numerous sources - novels, poems, dictionaries, essays, and academic research - which should serve as a brief primer on the ubiquitous nature of Pan, or Krishna. In one excerpt, he comments on a children's novel (The Wind in the Willows) by Kenneth Grahame where a rat and mole are irresistibly drawn to Pan's melodious piping: "They instinctively know that when they arrive at the source of that mystical music they will be in the 'holy place' (Vrindaban) where they shall find 'Him' (Krishna)." In James Hillman's essay, Pan is a "sacred manifestation of the psychic energy of the natural world," who "served as a mediator for the ancient Greeks," in Stromer's words. 
 
In James Hillman's own esoteric words, Pan was 'an ether who invisibly enveloped all natural things with personal meaning.' Intriguingly, the apostle Saint Paul made a similar declaration ages ago in his Epistle to the Romans (1:20): “Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people have no excuse for not knowing God.” Indirectly the Christian Saint Paul is claiming that God has a personal form that is invisible to our eyes, but can be analyzed or understood through his creation, especially human beings. Genesis 1:27 therefore declares that God created man in His own image, or after His likeness. Thus, Stromer proposes that Pan's enduring legacy is "reflective perhaps of the personal relationship Hillman advocates between each human soul and this powerful nature archetype." The Bhagavad Gita spoken by Krishna emphasizes the necessity of these same processes - jnana (knowledge of God) and bhakti (personal devotion to God) - so this timeless wisdom likely filtered into pagan and Christian philosophies.

"Pan is also the Greek divinity most associated with the demise of the polytheistic and pagan sacred traditions of the classical world," Stromer writes, and Plutarch's story of Pan's demise was "used as a rallying cry in the ruthless destruction of classical paganism that followed Constantine’s adoption of Christianity as the empire's only lawful religion." This explains why we find very few traces of Vedic gods in Europe's pagan artifacts, and when we do we tend to shrug them off as anomalies. Nonetheless, the significance of Krishna being venerated as the god of all nature's creatures by Greeks should be our main focus. Since Krishna was a universal deity in Rome and Greece, it becomes easier for us to comprehend why Rama was an esteemed personality in Etruscan civilization.

Etruscans, the True Founders of Rome in Honor of the Indian King Rama

“A story that was the subject of every variety of misrepresentation, not only by those who then lived but likewise in succeeding times: so true is it that all transactions of preeminent importance are wrapt in doubt and obscurity; while some hold for certain facts the most precarious hearsays, others turn facts into falsehood; and both are exaggerated by posterity.” 
Gaius Cornelius Tacitus, The Annals, Book III, 19 

This quote by one of Rome's greatest historians is cited by Robert Graves in his biographical novel of Roman emperor Claudius. Major historical events or "transactions of preeminent importance" are usually clouded with faint, contradictory memories that wrap them “in doubt and obscurity.” Perhaps no better example of this phenomenon is the open question: who were the real founders of Roma, the eternal city? Were they immortal like the current Italian metropolis of Rome purports to be? This "exaggeration by posterity" of immortality and invincibility stems from the aura of Rama, the universal deity. 

 

Left: Rama, Sita, and Lakshman walking through the forest wearing simple clothes made up of tree bark and leaves, Victoria & Albert Museum, London. Place of origin: Punjab Plains near modern-day Lahore, Pakistan. Late 19th century

Right: Typical 20th century Indian artist's depiction of the same subject. Compare with the Etruscan drawings shown below from Cerveteri near Rome.

Rome is the only ancient city known to have been founded on a specific date, April 21st, in the 8th century (753-728 B.C.) which is unanimously accepted. What happened during that short time frame is debatable, because virtually everything except the date is open for interpretation. It is quite remarkable that we as inquisitive people do not ask why there is seemingly pinpoint accuracy with Rome's beginning date, but practically no reliable information (other than ridiculous myths) about the details of that day, week, month, or year. First of all, it is not by accident that ancient Rome has this unique distinction of an exact founding date, but western scholars would have us believe it was sort of an accident - a fortuitous collaboration between Romulus and a mysterious guardian of animal flocks and their human caretakers. 
 
Its manifestation was the archaic agricultural festival Parilia, which commemorated Pales, a nondescript deity of uncertain gender who was a patron of shepherds and their livestock. Ovid, a Roman poet of the Imperial period, hinted that this pastoral celebration, which also took place annually on April 21, predates the founding of Rome when people were living off the land as real shepherds. It is reasonable to claim that rural festivals such as Parilia (also known as Palilia) existed before the city of Roma was inaugurated, but this does not prove that Romulus (or whoever was the founder) chose to lay the foundation of the city in honor of Pales. This obscure god, as I discussed in the "Satyr Pan" post, is an indirectly related character (Krishna), who like Rama, is the Hindu god Vishnu directly incarnating himself on earth to redeem mankind.

By connecting a popular spring extravaganza with Rome's birthday, contemporary writers during the height of Roman power could whitewash the true reasons why Rome was founded on April 21st. The Oxford Dictionary of Classical Myth & Religion (2003, pg. 406) admits that Parilia got identified as the birthday of Rome only by the time of the Late Republic (147-30 BC). Kathleen Daly echoes the same sentiment, when she remarks that Parilia "fell on the same day (April 21) in later years when people celebrated the founding of Rome" (pg. 109, Greek and Roman Mythology, A to Z, 3rd edition, 2009).

Most citizens of Rome probably did not even have enough awareness or courage to question all these made-up stories about their eternal city. As classical scholar Gilbert Highet observes, "The appellation Rome was a mystery to the Romans themselves: they did not know what meanings were concealed within it; perhaps originally it was no more than the name of a noble Etruscan family" (Ancient Rome by Robert Payne, 2005, pg. vii). Here Highet, who once chaired the Department of Greek and Latin at Columbia University, almost knocks on the door of my thesis. That 'noble Etruscan family' or clan is painted in the famous Campana plaques from Caere (modern Cerveteri, 50 km from Rome). They are currently found in their original condition at the Louvre Museum in Paris, and I will concentrate on two of these terracotta slabs (reproduced in full color without blemishes by the Archaeological Museum in Bologna as shown in my first post).

Rama (bow & arrow), Sita (Tulsi plant), Lakshman (spear)

Louvre Museum, Paris, France

This first scene is Rama, Sita, and Lakshman walking single file during their exile in the forest. These three are collectively shown with Bharat and Shatrughna (Rama's two other brothers) in Indian religion as Rama Parivar (Rama’s exalted Vedic family), which is what Gilbert Highet unwittingly describes as Roma's eponymous, noble Etruscan family. In Hindu temples, Rama, Sita, and Lakshman are worshiped together with Rama in the middle, Lakshman on the left, and Sita on the right. Notice that these two Etruscan drawings above and below primitively depict Rama and Lakshman with their right hands upright, much like Vedic deities who recognize the prayers of devotees by raising their right hands with palms facing outward. We saw a similar gesture by Neptune in the same exhibit at Bologna, Italy, a city located in the heart of Tuscany or Etruria (land of the Etruscans).

Rama carries Sita away from Lanka, Louvre Museum, Paris

Book Source: Etruscan Painting by Massimo Pallottino

From my point of view, this second scene is a funny but intelligible version of the ending to the Ramayana. The bearded man on the left is Rama, who once again holds a bow and arrows while wearing regular boots, thus connecting him to the man leading the march in the first painting. The shaven-faced man with wings (and winged boots) on the right is also Rama. He is triumphantly carrying Sita onto Ravana's Pushpaka vimana (airplane), which is metaphorically alluded to by his attached wings. After defeating Ravana, Rama returned with Sita to Ayodhya in the enemy's chariot-shaped plane. Notice the transition from bearded man living as an exile in the wilderness to the clean shaven lord who rescues his wife. While lying in his arms, Sita calmly gazes at her husband in a pleasant mood. Her facial expression indicates she is being saved by Rama.

The Louvre avoids displaying all of these panels on its website, except for the least controversial and enigmatic one, which is easy to dismiss as an inconsequential man at a sacrificial altar. That man, whose picture is displayed on its webpage titled "Campana slab: man before an altar", may be drinking soma juice after offering oblations in the sacred fire (Agnihotra or Yajna) and this kind of ritual activity is certainly mentioned in the Valmiki Ramayana:    

The oblations addressed to Indra are well given as ordained, and the flawless king Dasharatha also crushed the Soma creeper to squeeze Soma juice, and thus the mid-day savana ritual has come to pass according to sequence (1-14-6, Bala Kanda).

Bharata saw a sacrificial altar in the north-east corner having a steep descent, extensive in area and having a sacred fire burned in the hermitage of Rama (2-99-24, Ayodhya Kanda)

The Louvre's article about the Campana plaques is also revealing:
"The painted terracotta slabs from the Campana Collection come from a tomb in Caere, where they seem to have been reused. This type of covering was used to decorate the interior of civic buildings, temples, or tombs."

What this implies is that these particular terracotta slabs of Rama Parivar from Caere could have been used previously in civic buildings and Etruscan temples, in addition to tombs. The fact that they have not been rediscovered in other places around Tuscany speaks mostly to the dearth of tangible documentation on Etruscan culture. This is due "partly to the large quantity of unpublished material kept in museum reserves and thus not yet available for the reconstruction of the Etruscans’ past", as Sybille Haynes explains in her own introduction to her book Etruscan Civilization: A Cultural History (2000, pg. xviii). 

The Gregorian Etruscan Museum in Vatican City and the National Etruscan Museum (Villa Giulia) in Rome are the main culprits in this conspiracy to suppress evidence. If Italy had knowledgeable, secular bureaucrats, then this disturbing tale of habitual concealment of the truth would hopefully end soon. I am pessimistic because this is an inveterate practice of lying started by none other than the so-called Romans, or Latin tribes.

In the absence of a complete archaeological record, we can analyze literary clues and still come to a firm conclusion, where the hypothesis is proven beyond a reasonable doubt as required in a court of law. An absolute confirmation that Roma is Rama is practically impossible, but before I present more empirical evidence, let us examine two modern scholars' opinions on the origins of Romulus and Remus.

Robert Payne notes: “The legendary Romulus remains a mysterious figure. He left no dynasty, no body of doctrine, no tables of law. Yet some emanation of dynamic purpose was believed to flow from him after his death. In Romulus, the Romans found the symbol of an all-powerful king.” (pg. 27, Ancient Rome)
  
There was no body of doctrine or law for future generations to read because Etruscan literature was wiped out by the Romans, who wanted to eliminate any trace of Etruscan ancestry from memory. Ironically, although Roman law was the template for our current western judicial system, they never intended us to put their own chroniclers on trial. Take for instance, the interrogator asking Livy why Remus was invented when he is not an essential character in Rome's founding myth. Wikipedia, perhaps speaking on Livy's behalf, confesses that "the basis for Remus' name and role remain subjects of ancient and modern speculation." Romulus was manufactured from the name Roma alias Rama, the all-powerful king. Nobody understands the purpose behind the creation of the Remus character, but readers following this blog should know the explanation. Because Rama and Sita had twin sons Lava and Kush, the storytellers wanted to retain both children while distorting their relationship. The integrity of the Ramayan archetype was not completely violated but successfully changed enough to look like a separate, indigenous tradition of Rome.

Rama Parivar, the Eponymous Ancestors of Roma

From left to right: Lakshman, Rama, Sita, Bharat

Hanuman and Shatrughna kneeling with hands folded

Nigel Spivey's comments regarding this controversy are enlightening:
“It is not doubted, however, that the literary fabrication of Rome’s indigenous origins - the tale of Romulus and Remus - was actively promoted from the third century BC onwards. Specific Roman families had vested interests in encouraging such folklore. But the general partisan motive for this literary fabrication was to erase the memory that the foundations of the city of Rome had been laid not by Romans, but by Etruscans.” (Etruscan Art, pg. 150)

He reaches the same conclusion as me - that Etruscans were the aboriginal Italian founders of Rome - and chides the Latin Romans whose motivated lies have hoodwinked the public for over two thousand years. Before Romulus and Remus appeared in their mythology (circa 4th-3rd century BC), the dynasty of kings who ruled Rome were primarily Sabines (Numa Pompilius) in the 7th century and Etruscans (Lucius Tarquinius Priscus) in the 6th century. How could Latin tribes be the only pioneers of Roman civilization when many of their early monarchs were from different ethnic groups? To counter this obvious discrepancy, Spivey believes that later Roman historians “came up with a comforting non-Etruscan ancestry for these Tarquins (dynasty of Etruscan kings who ruled Roma from 616 to 509 BC). They claimed that the first Tarquinius was the son of an exiled Greek aristocrat called Demaratus." (pg. 59)

Remember that Numa Pompilius introduced the cult of Janus or Ganesh during his reign. Lucius Tarquinius almost certainly promoted Lord Rama because the Campana panels found in Cerveteri (ancient Caere) are dated to the late 6th century (550-525 BC), near the end of the Tarquin period. Once the Latin Romans overthrew the monarchy in 509 BC, Etruscan contributions were minimized and gradually destroyed through conquest of major cities in Etruria like Caere, Tarquinia, and Veii. The mythical Romulus, who supposedly preceded Numa Pompilius as Rome's first ever sovereign, is really just a representative figure for the divine incarnation of God whom the Etruscans knew and loved - Rama. The Orientalizing period, as it is vaguely described, began right around the time of Rome's founding years in the 8th century. According to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, it ranged from 750 to 575 B.C. and the University of Pennsylvania gives a timeline of 730-580 B.C. Thus, the extant literary and physical evidence of Indian Vedic influence on Italian civilization, however sparse, should coincide fairly well with this expected time frame. I will continue presenting such pieces of empirical evidence in future posts. Thanks for reading and feel free to share any of your own relevant insights in the comments section.